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« Fine Reading: HGT in Eukaryote Evolution | Main | Talmudic Question #46 »

March 16, 2009

Comments

Nathan Myers

Are we sure that wasps didn't themselves invent nudiviruses, which then, eventually, broke loose and achieved a more or less independent existence?

If so, can we say the same about bacteriophages?

Merry replies:

You have touched on a longstanding and much debated question: which came first, the virus or the cell? But in this case, you are asking about the origin of one particular family of viruses, not all viruses. The nudiviruses are clearly evolutionarily related to the rest of the viral world, not an independent lineage created in the wasps.

Britt

"Endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful!" I thought of these words (of Charles Darwin) as I read this article. This is a fabulous story.

One commentor suggested, "Maybe the wasps are just the viruses' way of reproducing themselves?"...I'm reminded of Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene". This wasp story is really amazing...parasite/parasitoid evolution is so fascinating. People that argue against evolutionary stories like this (or the evolution of a sophisticated eye, etc.) are really cheating themselves out of enjoying some real wonders of nature, real wonders of nature. (I said it twice because it was the subsject of convergent evolution.) Not only did/does it happen, but it happened more than once!

Another commentor posited, "I don't think we'd be here if not for them" but we could just as easily (more easily?) say the converse! Which came first, the virus or the host genome?

Mark O. Martin

Oh, and I loved this comment from Merry:

"Knowing what we know now, would you call them viruses? Or parasitoid-wasp-gene-delivery devices?"

Hmmm. Maybe the wasps are just the viruses' way of reproducing themselves? My head hurts.

Mark O. Martin

Merry, I know you are trying to stay away from the "definition of a virus" tar pit, but this sort of observation is relevant.

Me, I think that there is a broad spectrum of what we call "viruses." Personally (and without a jot of hard evidence), I think that in the "Pre-Darwinian" period posited by Carl Woese, these kinds of "packets" of information were shared very, very widely. Some "selfish nucleic acids" have learned to hijack the system and go into business for itself.

I keep thinking about gene transfer agent, of which STC has written before.

Great post that will make students scratch their heads---as it should be.

Welkin

Hi Merry, very nice article. Here's the pubmed ID for a highly speculative piece that Luis Villareal wrote about a decade ago for Journal of Virology, proposing that ancient retroviral particles expressed in placental tissues play a role in preventing maternal immunological rejection of the fetus. PMID: 8995601

Merry replies:
Thanks, Welkin. I nabbed a copy of the placental article to investigate. I am fascinated by the stories pointing to the roles played by viruses and kin in the evolution of diverse organisms. I don't think we'd be here if not for them. :-)

Christopher Taylor

The two lineages of wasp parasitoids (the braconids and ichneumonids) independently evolved similar reproductive strategies—an elegant example of convergent evolution.

Braconids and ichneumonids are sister taxa, so how do we know that polydnaviruses didn't evolve just once in their common ancestor? Do not all braconids and/or ichneumonids possess polydnaviruses?

(Merry replies)
Good point, Chris. All braconids and all ichneumonids so far do produce VLPs ("polydnaviruses"), but their VLPs have markedly different capsid structures and originated from associations with different viruses (a nudivirus in the case of the braconids, one or more baculoviruses for the ichneumonids). Phylogenetic studies suggest that these viral associations occurred after the two lineages diverged.

Although VLPs are produced in the nuclei of ovarian calyx cells in both genera, the mode of particle release differs: in ichneumonids, the VLPs emerge by budding; in braconids, VLPs are released by cell lysis. Other differences found involve the distribution of the encapsidated segments within the wasp genome, their mode of excision and replication, and the gene families they encode. Less than a handful of the 30,000+ wasps have been investigated, and the nudivirus origin of the braconid VLP capsid genes was only recently demonstrated. More surprises are bound to be in store in the future.

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