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Moselio Schaechter

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« Of Terms in Biology: Planktonic | Main | Of Terms in Biology: Neuston »

October 05, 2009

Comments

Roy

October 22nd, 2009 post.

For your information, Xylaria longipes is known as 'Dead Moll's Fingers, whereas Xylaria polymorpha is known as 'Dead Man's Fingers

Mark O. Martin

Nice comments from all! My first attempt to reply was eaten with gusto by my web browser crashing. So here I go again:

1. First, this entire discussion reminds me of the following:

“So naturalists observe, a flea
Has smaller fleas that on him prey;
And these have smaller still to bite ‘em;
And so proceed ad infinitum.”
-Jonathan Swift (“Poetry: A Rhapsody”).

2. Dr. Worthen, I have known Jorg Graf for a number of years, and his passion for leech-microbial associations (and his puckish sense of humor) always lead me to following this topic. He gave a superb seminar at the symbiosis symposium, for example.

3. Apologies for misunderstanding qetzal’s comment. I believe that a “Russian Nesting Dolls” paradigm for thinking about microbial interactions (in some cases, “intra-action”?) is useful and accurate. Merry’s topic is particularly instructive (I came to that line of thinking while considering “R-bodies” and the “kappa” phenotype in the protist Paramecium---look at how much more is known nowadays!).

We tend to think in reductionist terms, looking at simple systems and associations to gain an intellectual foothold on a problem. And there has been much benefit from that approach.

But looking, for example, at gut microbiota creates a different kettle of metaphorical fish, with over a thousand phylotypes to consider. There are many classes of “microbial associate” in that case, clearly, including: residents that use the location as a surface and little more, co-ops that contribute to upkeep or defense, transients that are just passing through (!), and “squatters” that “set up shop” in a disturbed or damaged location, to name a few.

Some of the associations may turn out to be trivial to understand, and others rivaling systems biology style complexity.

This makes me think, in turn, of “group activities” among microbes where “cheating” arises (say, among myxobacters, as studied by Greg Velicer and others). Surely such “cheating” will occur among the many denizens of a complex microbiota…ranging from (again) trivial examples to the very subtle.

I am then reminded of this great quote:
“All organisms are nothing but a bag of other organisms walking around.”
-Thomas Miller (UC Riverside).

Some of those organisms cooperate. Others fight. Still others are oblivious to one another. In a way, we are all ecospheres, writ moderately large. And enormous---whole worlds!--- to the microbes around us!

Thanks for the nice comments.

PWorthen

I suspect that the number of 'true' mutualists involved in many of these systems are quite small. I've often wondered if the majority of these microbes aren't just 'hangers-on', forming a sort of prokaryotic entourage that does little to help the host organism, but doesn't do much to hinder it either. It concerns me that researchers may push mutualism because it's sexier than commensalism - ie. it looks more interesting in journal articles and grant applications.

I got a thrill when I saw the link to my paper on leeches (Worthen et al. 2006) I've been out of the research world for a few years now, but it's always nice to see someone's still reading my stuff!

Elio

I believe that Quetzals' question has another facet. I would interpret it as asking how many levels of parasitism can coexist in one infected host. Try salmon poisoning in dogs that that get sick from eating salmon that carry a worm that carries a rickettsia. I count four levels. Add an imaginary phage to the rickettsia and you'd have five levels. Merry came up with five already (wasp, aphid, Buchnera, Hamiltonella, and phage) in her story at http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2009/09/good-guys-bad-guys.html. but I'm not sure all these operate at different levels.

Mark O. Martin


That is a great question, qetzal. There are well over a thousand phylotypes of microbes in the human gut, but how many are truly mutualists remains uncertain.

Or think about the termite hindgut!

I think that this whole concept that eukaryotes are "superorganisms" composed of a collection of vast numbers of different species may have quite a bit of validity. I feel a new T-shirt and button image coming on!

qetzal

I wonder what is the record for most number of essential partners in a single mutualistic relationship?

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